Monday, March 31, 2008
Apparently I'm not the only one
Someone else agrees with my theory of "victory by attrition" where the media is reporting every possible shooting in DC now that Heller is being reviewed by SCOTUS.
Tim Kaine Tomfoolery
If you haven't been following, Va Governor Tim Kaine has screwed Va gun owners.
David tells it like it is. My quick coverage here. Here's more from the VCDL which I will post in full:
No double standards there! Governor Kaine has denied that SB 476 allows Commonwealth attorneys to drink, but the VCDL hold his feet to the fire. He's going to get grilled over this next.
David tells it like it is. My quick coverage here. Here's more from the VCDL which I will post in full:
IT'S "FOR THE CHILDREN"
When Governor Kaine filled out VCDL's statewide survey, he said that he did not support CHP holders carrying in K-12 schools.
So what does he do? He signs SB 776, which allows Commonwealth Attorneys, who are not required to have any firearms training, to carry a handgun either concealed or openly anywhere on K-12 school property, including classrooms! Just like with restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages, the Governor has a double standard. He
gladly allows untrained government employees to carry at schools, but opposes allowing law-abiding and trained CHP holders to do the same.
Here is the law:
18.2-308.1 is the school code.
18.2-308.1 B, second paragraph, starts out with: "The exemptions set out in A7 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section."
That means that anyone listed in 18.2-308 B or C (like police, and now Commonwealth Attorneys) are exempted from the ban on school carry in 18.2-308.1.
No double standards there! Governor Kaine has denied that SB 476 allows Commonwealth attorneys to drink, but the VCDL hold his feet to the fire. He's going to get grilled over this next.
Another anti-war movie
It seems Stop-Loss also falls on its face.
The movie is about the stop loss policy for extending the active duty contract of those serving in the military and how it affects Soldiers. Some erroneously think it applies only to the Army.
I suppose Hollywood thinks they're exposing some sort of military disservice or something, as if it really is a "back door draft" as the uninformed media calls it. Having been stop lossed two weeks before the end of my active duty contract and sent to war, I clearly understand the weight of the issue.
The troops who are surprised by stop loss are the ones who didn't read their service contract very well; you sign up for however much active service, usually four years, and then a time of inactive service, usually an additional four years. You can be called back into active service within that inactive time period.
I am pretty tired of the Hollywood and media "elite" types speaking of things of which they have no knowledge or understanding. Here's to hoping they loose every dollar they put into trash like this.
Bastards
The movie is about the stop loss policy for extending the active duty contract of those serving in the military and how it affects Soldiers. Some erroneously think it applies only to the Army.
I suppose Hollywood thinks they're exposing some sort of military disservice or something, as if it really is a "back door draft" as the uninformed media calls it. Having been stop lossed two weeks before the end of my active duty contract and sent to war, I clearly understand the weight of the issue.
The troops who are surprised by stop loss are the ones who didn't read their service contract very well; you sign up for however much active service, usually four years, and then a time of inactive service, usually an additional four years. You can be called back into active service within that inactive time period.
I am pretty tired of the Hollywood and media "elite" types speaking of things of which they have no knowledge or understanding. Here's to hoping they loose every dollar they put into trash like this.
Bastards
Un-registered assault snake bites man
This one here in Va. Apparently it was left unattended in a man's briefcase and loaded with "assault venom." The fangs on the snake were reported to be the type that can pierce a full-grown adults skin.
Why the assault snake needed such deadly fangs and venom is still undetermined.
Why the assault snake needed such deadly fangs and venom is still undetermined.
Saturday, March 29, 2008
I thought it was gun free?
A 7 year old who was shot during a "gun battle" in DC is going to be fine. This event happened in spite of the "heightened" police presence and the door-to-door gun grabbing scheme, not to mention the outright gun ban.
Somehow I doubt that it was a gun battle with all of 50 words in the article, but it would seem like the media is reporting every shooting in the city. With the Heller decision hanging over the city, one would think that their intention is to sway the public opinion into a negative view.
Update: Here's another one. I think my theory of "victory by attrition" from the media has merit. There is nothing special about this shooting to draw anyone's attention. So many people get shot and killed in DC that it blows the mind and I think we will see every shooting in the news for the next few weeks, if not longer.
One would actually think that this tactic would not work considering it shows how ineffective the gun ban is.
Somehow I doubt that it was a gun battle with all of 50 words in the article, but it would seem like the media is reporting every shooting in the city. With the Heller decision hanging over the city, one would think that their intention is to sway the public opinion into a negative view.
Update: Here's another one. I think my theory of "victory by attrition" from the media has merit. There is nothing special about this shooting to draw anyone's attention. So many people get shot and killed in DC that it blows the mind and I think we will see every shooting in the news for the next few weeks, if not longer.
One would actually think that this tactic would not work considering it shows how ineffective the gun ban is.
How it starts
I'm waiting with baited breath for the cries to regulate the latest deadly threat to society. That threat would be in the form of the .22 Magnum rifle that two teenage punks used to shoot up cars in Virginia.
"A .22 MAGNUM!! Why, ain't that the type of gun that shoots them armor piercing rounds? I heard it can go clean through a bullet proof vest!"
Well, almost. We should ban it just to be safe.
"A .22 MAGNUM!! Why, ain't that the type of gun that shoots them armor piercing rounds? I heard it can go clean through a bullet proof vest!"
Well, almost. We should ban it just to be safe.
Friday, March 28, 2008
Great Rants
Do yourself a favor and go over to Larry Correia's place and check out his latest H&K rant. If you don't know who he is then check out the original H&K rant that has made him pretty famous.
Update: Here is a newer H&K rant! They just don't stop!
Update: Here is a newer H&K rant! They just don't stop!
Friday morning round up
An un-registered assault snake was stolen yesterday, and an unlicensed assault snake scares a homeowner. Both are presumed to be super deadly.
Two people shot at random cars on I-64 yesterday. Some of the media erroneously call them snipers, which is odd because snipers are expert riflemen that actually kill people.
It would seem that signs and laws cannot keep guns out of schools or other prohibited areas these days.
Md bill would punish citizens for the actions of wild animals.
Lots of knife crime this week.
Three killed by a gunman in Ga at Doctors Hospital. Time will tell if the hospital had a sign posted that would have prevented this tragedy.
Two people shot at random cars on I-64 yesterday. Some of the media erroneously call them snipers, which is odd because snipers are expert riflemen that actually kill people.
It would seem that signs and laws cannot keep guns out of schools or other prohibited areas these days.
Md bill would punish citizens for the actions of wild animals.
Lots of knife crime this week.
Three killed by a gunman in Ga at Doctors Hospital. Time will tell if the hospital had a sign posted that would have prevented this tragedy.
Thursday, March 27, 2008
AK-47 hysteria!
I started to write about this in the wee hours of the morning but never finished. I'm convinced that my family is trying to covertly destroy my blogging time.
It matters not! Uncle has done a fantastic job of covering all of the good stuff so go check it out!
It matters not! Uncle has done a fantastic job of covering all of the good stuff so go check it out!
Knock, Knock...Who's There? Tyranny...Tyranny Who?
...Tyranny guns in there? HAHA I crack me up.
Anyways, a co-worker informed me of 107.7 FM 3WT talk radio where they throw softball questions at DC Mayor Adrien Fenty every week, so this morning I'm tuned in and sure enough they get him on the line to discuss the "Safe Homes Initiative" where the Metro Police Department is going door-to-door in search of guns in the possession of residents.
My past coverage on this is here.
Softball questions would be an understatement. They ask the Mayor if there are any Constitutional issues that he is concerned about with this sort of event and he starts talking about how everyone else is doing it and then dodges the question. He also can't give an answer to the question of what specifically the Metro Police are asking residents when they are at the door, and David Burd, Jessica Doyle and Victoria Jones let him get away with these non-answers completely unchallenged.
One thing he did say that I thought was interesting is
That's odd because I thought the DC residents were afraid of the gangs who were murdering citizens with guns, knives, fists, and other weapons. Do you think gang bangers and murderers are going to just let the police into their house? Maybe they will if they think the gun they murdered with is not traceable, then they can get amnesty.
DC thinks that criminals get around the gun ban because of "lax" gun laws in VA, and that is why they terrorize DC residents with violence and mayhem. If DC residents want to live in a lower crime area they need only to cross the Potomac River into VA where the crime rate is many times lower and guns can be legally bought, sold, and carried. DC is a violent city because it has an uncontrolled CRIMINAL problem, not because it is full of guns.
The real issue here is that Mayor Fenty believes that if they take guns away from those citizens that can be intimidated into allowing entry into their house then criminals, who will not let cops take the weapons of their trade, will cease being criminals. Taking away guns will not work. If he is only going to give amnesty to criminals and not do what it takes to lock them up forever then DC is going to stay the landmark capitol of violence in America.
Anyways, a co-worker informed me of 107.7 FM 3WT talk radio where they throw softball questions at DC Mayor Adrien Fenty every week, so this morning I'm tuned in and sure enough they get him on the line to discuss the "Safe Homes Initiative" where the Metro Police Department is going door-to-door in search of guns in the possession of residents.
My past coverage on this is here.
Softball questions would be an understatement. They ask the Mayor if there are any Constitutional issues that he is concerned about with this sort of event and he starts talking about how everyone else is doing it and then dodges the question. He also can't give an answer to the question of what specifically the Metro Police are asking residents when they are at the door, and David Burd, Jessica Doyle and Victoria Jones let him get away with these non-answers completely unchallenged.
One thing he did say that I thought was interesting is
"I think the people are afraid of the guns in their neighborhood"- (not an exact quote, I was driving a car when he said it).
That's odd because I thought the DC residents were afraid of the gangs who were murdering citizens with guns, knives, fists, and other weapons. Do you think gang bangers and murderers are going to just let the police into their house? Maybe they will if they think the gun they murdered with is not traceable, then they can get amnesty.
DC thinks that criminals get around the gun ban because of "lax" gun laws in VA, and that is why they terrorize DC residents with violence and mayhem. If DC residents want to live in a lower crime area they need only to cross the Potomac River into VA where the crime rate is many times lower and guns can be legally bought, sold, and carried. DC is a violent city because it has an uncontrolled CRIMINAL problem, not because it is full of guns.
The real issue here is that Mayor Fenty believes that if they take guns away from those citizens that can be intimidated into allowing entry into their house then criminals, who will not let cops take the weapons of their trade, will cease being criminals. Taking away guns will not work. If he is only going to give amnesty to criminals and not do what it takes to lock them up forever then DC is going to stay the landmark capitol of violence in America.
Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Blade-Tech holster review
Click here to see the update on the Fobus ankle holster review that I wrote earlier.
I have several belt and paddle holsters for the Glock 17 but was interested in a IWB, mainly to help hide the length of the slide. After looking over every holster that I could find I settled on the Blade-Tech standard IWB.
Fitting the gun to the holster with the tension screws was quick. The belt loops attach to the holster body with screws and are adjustable for cant, with the loop closest to the sight trough having two slots to give a greater degree of cant.
I have several belt and paddle holsters for the Glock 17 but was interested in a IWB, mainly to help hide the length of the slide. After looking over every holster that I could find I settled on the Blade-Tech standard IWB.
At $65 it is not expensive and I didn't even wait 4 days to receive the package. After taking it out of the box, the first thing I noticed is that it's very well made. I used to have an ultra-thin Kydex IWB from Fist Inc. for a Glock 20 that was wonderful for concealment, but it was - as you would guess - very thin. The Blade-Tech is not super thin but it is not excessive either. It has the double snaps so that it can be put on and taken off without the removal of the belt, as well as two adjustable tension screws to keep the gun secure.
Fitting the gun to the holster with the tension screws was quick. The belt loops attach to the holster body with screws and are adjustable for cant, with the loop closest to the sight trough having two slots to give a greater degree of cant.
I prefer a great deal of cant to help with concealment, but more importantly to help balance the gun. 17 rounds of 9mm in the magazine is not light and makes the butt of the gun tip down.
I usually wear some type of riggers belt from either 5.11 or Wilderness. The belt loops fit over them fine and I think that the 1 3/4" riggers belt from Blackhawk would probably work great too.
As far as the holstering and un-holstering, this is where the Blade-Tech really shines. No exaggerating, this is the slickest holster I have ever owned. Blade-Tech claims this thing is made of Kydex, but with the silky smooth snickitty-snick goodness it feels like it was crafted from the plasticized asshole of Bambi's baby brother. I'm not kidding. When you holster the pistol it's like a hand is inside of the thing and guides the pistol home. Drawing is fast and smooth and lacks the distinct Kydex snap that I'm used to from using Fobus holsters. Not that Fobus holsters are bad or anything; I have lots of them.
I generally use leather holsters because they feel smoother than the gritty snap of Kydex but now I feel like I may have to order another one of these for the future 1911 that I'm shopping for.
The Blade-Tech carries and conceals well but I find IWB holsters uncomfortable. This is not a knock against the Blade-Tech, it's just that sitting on a 3 x 2" block of plastic and steel all day can be very painful. Then again, to quote Clint Smith - "Your carry gun should be comforting, not comfortable." 
Even with the gun canted as much as that it still tips down after getting in and out of the car and walking around all day. No big deal to me, this holster is for the minimalist to conceal a handgun. If I wanted a holster that absolutely did not move I would have ordered one of these.
Taking the holster off is very easy, just un-snap the belt loops and off she goes. Putting the holster on while wearing the belt can be a exercise in futility. I find it a pain so I thread the belt through like any other holster and I save myself some time. A bonus is that my Glock 26 also fits in this holster just as well as the Glock 17, although the paperwork that came with it says not to use it for any gun that it is not designed for. Just a thought.
Other than that, there isn't much else to say about it. I will update this post at a later date if I have more to report.
Monday, March 24, 2008
Why would you need a gun in a National Park?
It's not like there is anything to be afraid of, the Park Rangers have your back! Too bad for this woman, no one was there for her, but...but...she was a martial artist and could handle herself! She went out fighting! Great.
What a tragedy. There must be a small but effective tool that provides protection from many of the hazards one would encounter along the Appalachian Trail.
There is! Banned you say? Why would anyone want to do that?
I assure you I will go out fighting too, but there will be alot more noise.
Here is a dose of stupid:
Fascinating. Yeah, there is crime, murder and such...occasionally...and you, as an individual adult, can bear all of the associated risks, hazards, and responsibilities that come with hiking thousands of miles through the wilderness, but you shouldn't carry a firearm to provide for any sort of protection against said hazards because there is nothing at all to worry about. Got it! I can't be trusted!
If someone had given Theodore Roosevelt this type of advise he would have slapped them silly!
What a tragedy. There must be a small but effective tool that provides protection from many of the hazards one would encounter along the Appalachian Trail.
There is! Banned you say? Why would anyone want to do that?
I assure you I will go out fighting too, but there will be alot more noise.
Here is a dose of stupid:
Crimes:
The Appalachian Trail is generally safe. However, a major crime (e.g. murder, rape) does occasionally occur on the A.T. Status of major crimes on the TEHCC section:Tennessee. This area was on the A.T. until 1954, when the A.T. was relocated. The murder occurred several miles from the current route of the A.T., and the people involved were not A.T. hikers.
In early October 1996, a murder occurred in the Stamping Ground Ridge section of Unicoi County,
There is ABSOLUTELY no need to carry firearms on the TEHCC section of the Appalachian Trail; the carrying of firearms on the A.T. is strongly discouraged and also subject to numerous state and federal laws.
Fascinating. Yeah, there is crime, murder and such...occasionally...and you, as an individual adult, can bear all of the associated risks, hazards, and responsibilities that come with hiking thousands of miles through the wilderness, but you shouldn't carry a firearm to provide for any sort of protection against said hazards because there is nothing at all to worry about. Got it! I can't be trusted!
If someone had given Theodore Roosevelt this type of advise he would have slapped them silly!
Did they not see the sign?
Thugs shoot at unarmed students at a Florida University. I thought guns were prohibited in places of higher learning? Here's a shocker:
Weird! Do you reckon they were members of the evil NRA?!?! Do you think they had concealed handgun licenses? They must have if they were carrying guns, I mean gun owning extremists are so brazen these days.
Don't they put up signs to prevent stuff like this?
FAMU said those arrested include:
*Rashad Bell and Renaldo Bell, who were charged with possessing a firearm on school grounds and possessing a stolen firearm. They are not FAMU students.
*Benjamin Robinson, a Tallahassee Community College student charged with three counts of aggravated assault, possessing a firearm on school grounds, shooting into an occupied vehicle and possessing a weapon with an altered serial number.
*Antoine Willam, a FAMU student charged with possessing a weapon on school grounds.
Weird! Do you reckon they were members of the evil NRA?!?! Do you think they had concealed handgun licenses? They must have if they were carrying guns, I mean gun owning extremists are so brazen these days.
Don't they put up signs to prevent stuff like this?
Pure Evil
This is the most vile and evil story I've heard about in years. It goes to show that violence is caused by evil people, not inanimate objects. Too bad Illinois no longer uses capital punishment, the world would be a better place without these individuals consuming perfectly good air.
Media sillyness
Here is video from NBC 4 in Washington concerning the VCDL open carrying in restaurants. My past coverage here.
This story is in regards to the VCDL having an open carry campaign in Fairfax county due to state Senator Richard Saslaw saying that those who open carry in a restaurant will be refused service. Saslaw also believes that it is up to lawmakers to save Va from the evil gun blobby and impose legislation that would end this practice. Also note that the VCDL has been doing this for years, and did not just conjure up this idea yesterday.
Right off the bat, anchor Wendi Rieger seems perplexed as to why someone would carry a gun at all. See shows her bias when she hands the story over to reporter Michael Flynn "to explain why" as she rolls her head around in disdain, as if carrying a gun were like carrying a gangrenous, festering leg.
Michael Flynn explains this as a "gunfight between a gun rights group and a state senator" which is a poor way to explain it. Flynn does interview a VCDL member, Dave Vann, and also interviews Saslaw who says that only law enforcement should be able to carry into restaurants, and that if us regular folk show up wearing a "six-shooter" then we would be asked to leave.
The restaurant where Vann and Flynn went for the interview, the Ocean M, allows people to carry in their establishment, with the owner saying that be assumes those who carry are licensed. Note that one does not need to be licensed to open carry in Va, to include in bars and restaurants, only to conceal carry, which is prohibited in places that serve alcohol to be served on premises.
Flynn goes on to mention that Vann "has a license to carry the gun" which, as I explained above, is a moot point as Vann is open carrying. You would think that a reporter would have at least a fundamental understanding of the law if he or she were to cover a story.
Flynn interviewed two individuals who were dining at some restaurant who said that if 60 people show up carrying guns that they would leave. I wonder if they would leave if 12 MS-13 walked in with concealed guns? Oh yeah, right, how would they know? Your days dose of stupid:
Yes, a gun walking around unsupervised sends chills down my spine.
The owner of Arties restaurant in Fairfax announced that his establishment is now gun unfriendly. Nothing wrong with that, gun owners will just have to go elsewhere.
Flynn explains that those with concealed handgun permits can open carry in restaurants as long as they don't drink. This is entirely untrue. As explained above, an individual needs no blessing from his or her government to carry openly, in a bar, restaurant, or elsewhere, and can consume alcohol while carrying as long as said person does not become intoxicated. The confusion is that if someone is carrying concealed, then they must un-conceal their firearm to go into a bar or a restaurant.
Va governor Tim Kaine vetoed a bill last month, SB 476, that would have made it legal to conceal carry in a restaurant as long as the gun owner did not consume alcohol and let the restaurant staff know they were carrying. Funny though is that Kaine supports SB 776 which would allow Commonwealth attorneys to carry concealed in a bar and drink alcohol with no license or training! Us mere citizens are too untrustworthy to carry concealed where alcohol is present for fear of us consuming the booze, but it's cool for those with a government paycheck to carry and drink. No double standards there.
This story is in regards to the VCDL having an open carry campaign in Fairfax county due to state Senator Richard Saslaw saying that those who open carry in a restaurant will be refused service. Saslaw also believes that it is up to lawmakers to save Va from the evil gun blobby and impose legislation that would end this practice. Also note that the VCDL has been doing this for years, and did not just conjure up this idea yesterday.
Right off the bat, anchor Wendi Rieger seems perplexed as to why someone would carry a gun at all. See shows her bias when she hands the story over to reporter Michael Flynn "to explain why" as she rolls her head around in disdain, as if carrying a gun were like carrying a gangrenous, festering leg.
Michael Flynn explains this as a "gunfight between a gun rights group and a state senator" which is a poor way to explain it. Flynn does interview a VCDL member, Dave Vann, and also interviews Saslaw who says that only law enforcement should be able to carry into restaurants, and that if us regular folk show up wearing a "six-shooter" then we would be asked to leave.
The restaurant where Vann and Flynn went for the interview, the Ocean M, allows people to carry in their establishment, with the owner saying that be assumes those who carry are licensed. Note that one does not need to be licensed to open carry in Va, to include in bars and restaurants, only to conceal carry, which is prohibited in places that serve alcohol to be served on premises.
Flynn goes on to mention that Vann "has a license to carry the gun" which, as I explained above, is a moot point as Vann is open carrying. You would think that a reporter would have at least a fundamental understanding of the law if he or she were to cover a story.
Flynn interviewed two individuals who were dining at some restaurant who said that if 60 people show up carrying guns that they would leave. I wonder if they would leave if 12 MS-13 walked in with concealed guns? Oh yeah, right, how would they know? Your days dose of stupid:
"Wouldn't you be bothered if you just saw a gun around, period, in general?"
Yes, a gun walking around unsupervised sends chills down my spine.
The owner of Arties restaurant in Fairfax announced that his establishment is now gun unfriendly. Nothing wrong with that, gun owners will just have to go elsewhere.
Flynn explains that those with concealed handgun permits can open carry in restaurants as long as they don't drink. This is entirely untrue. As explained above, an individual needs no blessing from his or her government to carry openly, in a bar, restaurant, or elsewhere, and can consume alcohol while carrying as long as said person does not become intoxicated. The confusion is that if someone is carrying concealed, then they must un-conceal their firearm to go into a bar or a restaurant.
Va governor Tim Kaine vetoed a bill last month, SB 476, that would have made it legal to conceal carry in a restaurant as long as the gun owner did not consume alcohol and let the restaurant staff know they were carrying. Funny though is that Kaine supports SB 776 which would allow Commonwealth attorneys to carry concealed in a bar and drink alcohol with no license or training! Us mere citizens are too untrustworthy to carry concealed where alcohol is present for fear of us consuming the booze, but it's cool for those with a government paycheck to carry and drink. No double standards there.
Friday, March 21, 2008
Abso-frickin-lutely!
In this Reuters article, Matthew Bigg tries to pull at your heartstrings over "life-means-life" sentences in the US, which are used on minors in substitute for the death penalty. According to a study by the Equal Justice Initiative, 2,225 minors have been given such sentences.
This New York Times article says that there almost 1.6 million Americans incarcerated in the US, which if that is the case then those 2,225 minors sentenced to a "life-means-life" incarceration represent about .0000014% of the prison population. He uses this case to articulate how this is wrong:
Um, I would have found a better case to cite. I think both killers deserve to never see the light of day again. I don't care if they were teenagers or if they had a bad childhood, burning people alive should buy you a one way ticket to the needle, or in the case of minors such as these, a lifetime behind bars with no chance of assimilating back into the world.
EJI is actually trying to get Ashley Jones out of prison.
EJI is against the death penalty and against putting people in prison forever. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
I am for the death penalty albeit in very narrow and rare circumstances and I have read somewhat on the arguments of those who oppose the death penalty and their arguments are compelling. I also feel that there are some people who just cannot make it in society and I feel these are those types of people.
Not all of those in prison are there for the right reasons, nor is every prisoner's sentence always justified, but there has to be a way to keep dangerous people out of society no matter their age or circumstance. If killing them really is morally wrong then we should lock them up inside of a teeny little box and forget they ever existed.
Do I feel that these types of sentences are justified? Read the title again.
This New York Times article says that there almost 1.6 million Americans incarcerated in the US, which if that is the case then those 2,225 minors sentenced to a "life-means-life" incarceration represent about .0000014% of the prison population. He uses this case to articulate how this is wrong:
"I SAW HER IN FLAMES"
The case of Ashley Jones, who was 14 when she killed, illustrates the seriousness of many crimes that result in for-life sentences. One night in August 1999, Jones and her 16-year-old boyfriend, Geramie Hart, angered by her family's disapproval of their relationship, went to her home in Birmingham, Alabama. They set her grandfather on fire with lighter fluid, stabbed him and shot him dead. They also stabbed and shot dead Jones' aunt in her bedroom and set her grandmother on fire. Jones' 10-year-old sister, Mary, was asleep in bed but they dragged her to the kitchen to see the attack on her family. "I had to sit there and watch her (Ashley) torture my grandmother. I saw her in flames," said Mary Jones, recounting her ordeal in an interview in Alabaster, Alabama. "Geramie ... picked me up by my neck and pointed a gun at me and said: 'This is how you are going to die.' Ashley said: 'No, wait. I'll do her.'" They stabbed Mary Jones repeatedly, puncturing a lung, and drove off leaving her and her grandmother, whose injuries included burns, stab and gunshot wounds, to stagger outside.
Um, I would have found a better case to cite. I think both killers deserve to never see the light of day again. I don't care if they were teenagers or if they had a bad childhood, burning people alive should buy you a one way ticket to the needle, or in the case of minors such as these, a lifetime behind bars with no chance of assimilating back into the world.
EJI is actually trying to get Ashley Jones out of prison.
The Equal Justice Initiative has filed suits in six states challenging the life-without-parole sentences and has brought a case in federal court in northern Alabama over the Jones case, arguing it represents cruel and unusual punishment.
Hart is also serving the same sentence.
EJI is against the death penalty and against putting people in prison forever. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
I am for the death penalty albeit in very narrow and rare circumstances and I have read somewhat on the arguments of those who oppose the death penalty and their arguments are compelling. I also feel that there are some people who just cannot make it in society and I feel these are those types of people.
Not all of those in prison are there for the right reasons, nor is every prisoner's sentence always justified, but there has to be a way to keep dangerous people out of society no matter their age or circumstance. If killing them really is morally wrong then we should lock them up inside of a teeny little box and forget they ever existed.
Do I feel that these types of sentences are justified? Read the title again.
How hospitable
The VCDL, which I am a proud member of, will be meeting for lunch in restaurants while openly carrying firearms on every Saturday in April in defiance of Virginia Senator Richard Saslaw.
They have been doing this for many years without a problem but some people have no idea what to do when free people exercise a right, so they do ridiculous things like:
Or maybe you will alert them to make them alarmed? Is that your goal, to make the restaurants reject VCDL members?
Considering the organization fights against pro-gun bills such as the dreaded "guns in bars" and guns locked up in cars, I would have to say yes. Then I find it odd that your organization hails little old ladies who exercise "free enterprise" and walk out of restaurants because they allow smoking, and openly objects government intervention and regulation of smoking in restaurants and bars because it interferes with the business owners property rights, but then says:
They have been doing this for many years without a problem but some people have no idea what to do when free people exercise a right, so they do ridiculous things like:
The Virginia Hospitality and Travel Association is considering alerting restaurants so they won't be alarmed.
Or maybe you will alert them to make them alarmed? Is that your goal, to make the restaurants reject VCDL members?
Considering the organization fights against pro-gun bills such as the dreaded "guns in bars" and guns locked up in cars, I would have to say yes. Then I find it odd that your organization hails little old ladies who exercise "free enterprise" and walk out of restaurants because they allow smoking, and openly objects government intervention and regulation of smoking in restaurants and bars because it interferes with the business owners property rights, but then says:
"VHTA strongly believes that gun rights should not trump private property rights."Are guns not property? Is it just because gun owners are not part of your organization? Why don't you let the restaurant owners decide for themselves who to allow or disallow into their establishment, and let "free enterprise" work unimpeded by your influence.
He's so "Special"
A teenager plays with his daddy's issued gun in DC and negligently shoots his brother and kills him. Daddy is a Special police officer in DC.
Where is the outrage? Where are the charges? If it had been my gun, DC or not, the media would be chanting about unlocked assault thingies and negligence, not to mention the public at large would want my head!
Double standards.
Where is the outrage? Where are the charges? If it had been my gun, DC or not, the media would be chanting about unlocked assault thingies and negligence, not to mention the public at large would want my head!
Double standards.
Why was he free?
In Florida, this scumbag was out of prison after serving only four years for armed aggravated assault, his second offense. No mention of how long (short) he served the first time. What was he doing out and about amongst the non-violent population?
He died at the buisiness end of a SWAT officers gun after a standoff with hostages. This would be the real purpose of a SWAT team, and they need M4's.
He died at the buisiness end of a SWAT officers gun after a standoff with hostages. This would be the real purpose of a SWAT team, and they need M4's.
Bad guy wearing body armor
In Baltimore. It didn't help much; he was shot several times in the "upper torso" by two cops during a shootout and almost died.
Thursday, March 20, 2008
AK-M4/47 semi-automatic machine guns?
There goes that goofy media again! I wish for once they would hire someone with a clue.
The University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, VA has purchased 3 "patrol rifles" for its campus police that several media folk called "M4 semi-automatic rifles" which is not correct, and then goes on to say that they are "the same rifles used by Soldiers in Iraq."
First, the Colt M4 is used by Soldiers in Iraq and it is a select fire rifle, meaning it can be switched between semi-automatic and automatic fire. These rifles that the UMW police have are "semi-automatic" according to...everyone apparently, which would not be the Colt M4, so which is it? I mean my semi-automatic M4 looking rifle is apparently an evil "assault weapon" which would make people shit their britches if I had it on a campus, but the campus police have what the media is calling a "patrol rifle" and it's Okeedokee! Perfect.
Most of the students seem cool with the idea of campus police being better armed, and some can't wait to lick their boots. Comments like: "Wow that's a really big gun" and "I feel safer with them" make me queazy.
Check out the video that is with this story. That would be an AK-47 or an AK semi-automatic look-alike rifle at the begining with a mounted grenade launcher. When they speak of the rifle as the "same rifle used by Soldiers in Iraq" they show insurgents with automatic AK-47's, an RPG-7, and even a PKM light machine gun, a belt fed weapon, not US troops with genuine M4's.
They also throw in descriptive words like "high powered," which is interesting considering that the Fredericksburg natives could show the media a thing or two about what constitutes a "high powered" rifle.
In this article, only one of the campus police has any training with the rifle, and the associated picture has an M-forgery look alike rifle with an innocent little magazine attached. Neat! Nothing to see here folks!
Oh, they have to be trained on how to use them before they are deployed, and they are so that they have the same weapons as the Fredericksburg police. That would be these guys:
Great.
Good thing they're going to keep the not-M4's locked up! That will make them useless if hell does in fact freeze over and a gunman shoots up the campus. I'm not against police having the right tools for the job, but when they trade in their shotguns for suspect automatic rifles and they don't trust the <1% of the willing student body to carry a simple handgun for defense, then I have to raise the bullshit flag.
The University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, VA has purchased 3 "patrol rifles" for its campus police that several media folk called "M4 semi-automatic rifles" which is not correct, and then goes on to say that they are "the same rifles used by Soldiers in Iraq."
First, the Colt M4 is used by Soldiers in Iraq and it is a select fire rifle, meaning it can be switched between semi-automatic and automatic fire. These rifles that the UMW police have are "semi-automatic" according to...everyone apparently, which would not be the Colt M4, so which is it? I mean my semi-automatic M4 looking rifle is apparently an evil "assault weapon" which would make people shit their britches if I had it on a campus, but the campus police have what the media is calling a "patrol rifle" and it's Okeedokee! Perfect.
Most of the students seem cool with the idea of campus police being better armed, and some can't wait to lick their boots. Comments like: "Wow that's a really big gun" and "I feel safer with them" make me queazy.
Check out the video that is with this story. That would be an AK-47 or an AK semi-automatic look-alike rifle at the begining with a mounted grenade launcher. When they speak of the rifle as the "same rifle used by Soldiers in Iraq" they show insurgents with automatic AK-47's, an RPG-7, and even a PKM light machine gun, a belt fed weapon, not US troops with genuine M4's.
They also throw in descriptive words like "high powered," which is interesting considering that the Fredericksburg natives could show the media a thing or two about what constitutes a "high powered" rifle.
In this article, only one of the campus police has any training with the rifle, and the associated picture has an M-forgery look alike rifle with an innocent little magazine attached. Neat! Nothing to see here folks!
Oh, they have to be trained on how to use them before they are deployed, and they are so that they have the same weapons as the Fredericksburg police. That would be these guys:
The city's police department already has 16 M4s, which are used only by its special equipment tactical team during raids and barricades, said police spokeswoman Natatia Bledsoe. The department expects to get six more M4 rifles soon for officers on patrol.
Great.
Good thing they're going to keep the not-M4's locked up! That will make them useless if hell does in fact freeze over and a gunman shoots up the campus. I'm not against police having the right tools for the job, but when they trade in their shotguns for suspect automatic rifles and they don't trust the <1% of the willing student body to carry a simple handgun for defense, then I have to raise the bullshit flag.
Heller
It's all a waiting game now. Here is a link to SCOTUSWiki that has everything you will ever need.
Everything soounded pretty good. Mr. Gura, Mr. Hellers attorney, got a little nervous and started talking about machine guns, but overall did pretty well. Mr. Dellinger, who is the attorney for DC, to me sounded like he got his ass handed to him, but that's just my opinion.
Keep in mind that the case is structured to get the Supreme Court to say the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not to get them to back off of the NFA or Huges Amendment or any other laws. Baby steps.
What I thought was most interesting about the whole thing is how a silly Hollywood myth could make its way into oral arguments in front of the Supreme Court. Solicitor General Paul D. Clement, arguing for the respondent and in response to Justice Ginsburg, brings up the topic of plastic guns that evade metal detectors even though there is no such thing.
From the transcripts, page 29 line 18:
It's this sort of trash that makes my blood boil. This of course would be the perpetuating myth from movies like In The Line of Fire and Die Hard 2:
The anti gunners like to ask why we get pissed about little details when they call any type of firearm an "assault weapon." This is why.
Overall I think the court will rule in favor of individual rights, as they should. How we got to this point in history where this right actually has to be argued in the Supreme Court says alot about where our society is headed.
Everything soounded pretty good. Mr. Gura, Mr. Hellers attorney, got a little nervous and started talking about machine guns, but overall did pretty well. Mr. Dellinger, who is the attorney for DC, to me sounded like he got his ass handed to him, but that's just my opinion.
Keep in mind that the case is structured to get the Supreme Court to say the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not to get them to back off of the NFA or Huges Amendment or any other laws. Baby steps.
What I thought was most interesting about the whole thing is how a silly Hollywood myth could make its way into oral arguments in front of the Supreme Court. Solicitor General Paul D. Clement, arguing for the respondent and in response to Justice Ginsburg, brings up the topic of plastic guns that evade metal detectors even though there is no such thing.
From the transcripts, page 29 line 18:
GENERAL CLEMENT: Absolutely, Justice Ginsburg, and just -- I mean, to give you a clear example, we would take the position that the kind of plastic guns or guns that are specifically designed to evade metal detectors that are prohibited by Federal law are not "arms" within the meaning of the Second Amendment and are not protected at all.
It's this sort of trash that makes my blood boil. This of course would be the perpetuating myth from movies like In The Line of Fire and Die Hard 2:
"That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It dosen't show up on you airport X-ray machines, and it cost more than you make here in a month."
The anti gunners like to ask why we get pissed about little details when they call any type of firearm an "assault weapon." This is why.
Overall I think the court will rule in favor of individual rights, as they should. How we got to this point in history where this right actually has to be argued in the Supreme Court says alot about where our society is headed.
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Beware of new Terror Ammo! Movie Guns I
I watched the movie WAR last night which starred Jet Li and Jason Statham. I laughed almost the entire movie. The action and all that was pretty good, but the realism was seriously lacking.
I'm one of those geeks who picks out all of the innaccuracies in movies with guns, so imagine how hard I laughed when I heard this at the begining of the movie:
Here is a screenshot of the casing:
Looks like a 5.7x28mm to me, and just in case you may have had any doubts that it was titanium:
There you have it! It's titanium alright, and it does appear to be a 5.7. Good thing they clarified that. The only problem is that these rounds are loaded into a Walther P99:
Jet Li's caracter picked up a magazine, which looks suspiciously like an FN FiveSeveN mag, and places one round in it for dramatic effect before taking a look at those depleted uranium beauties:
Notice that the top cartridge that he just loaded is not seated all the way. Well he shoves that FN FiveSeveN magazine right on into the Walther anyways, and then refrained from chambering a round. Safety first and all.
Also, what does one need depleted uranium rounds for? I mean this is pistol ammo, not 120mm for the main gun on a M1A1. According to the VPC, all 5.7x28mm rounds are the super deadly "armor piercing" spleen shredders, or does depleted uranium cause so much more damage to flesh? It sure as hell doesn't expand. Maybe the "teflon" fad has finally become boring to Hollywood and they needed a new hysterical hobby horse to ride. Or maybe the Yakusa have to worry about armored vehicles! BWAHAHAHAHA!
Still a pretty good movie, I'm just a stickler for firearm stuff.
Now let's watch for the VPC or the Brady Bunch pick up on this danger to our society and call for an immediate ban! No more Walther P99's that accept titanium ammo on our streets!
I'm one of those geeks who picks out all of the innaccuracies in movies with guns, so imagine how hard I laughed when I heard this at the begining of the movie:
"..titanium shells, depleted uranium bullets; it was his signature..."HAHAHA!! Hollywood has such an active imagination! My wife just rolled her eyes when I tried to tell her how stupid that was while I'm gasping for air. There was much more firearm tomfoolery throughout.
Here is a screenshot of the casing:
Looks like a 5.7x28mm to me, and just in case you may have had any doubts that it was titanium:
There you have it! It's titanium alright, and it does appear to be a 5.7. Good thing they clarified that. The only problem is that these rounds are loaded into a Walther P99:
Jet Li's caracter picked up a magazine, which looks suspiciously like an FN FiveSeveN mag, and places one round in it for dramatic effect before taking a look at those depleted uranium beauties:
Notice that the top cartridge that he just loaded is not seated all the way. Well he shoves that FN FiveSeveN magazine right on into the Walther anyways, and then refrained from chambering a round. Safety first and all.
Also, what does one need depleted uranium rounds for? I mean this is pistol ammo, not 120mm for the main gun on a M1A1. According to the VPC, all 5.7x28mm rounds are the super deadly "armor piercing" spleen shredders, or does depleted uranium cause so much more damage to flesh? It sure as hell doesn't expand. Maybe the "teflon" fad has finally become boring to Hollywood and they needed a new hysterical hobby horse to ride. Or maybe the Yakusa have to worry about armored vehicles! BWAHAHAHAHA!
Still a pretty good movie, I'm just a stickler for firearm stuff.
Now let's watch for the VPC or the Brady Bunch pick up on this danger to our society and call for an immediate ban! No more Walther P99's that accept titanium ammo on our streets!
Tuesday, March 18, 2008
Great Quotes
This one from The Agitator which I read every day, in regards to reasons to legalize drugs:
When was the last time you heard of a Michelob transaction gone wrong?Yes, black markets are generally violent. Prohibition was notoriously so. Read the rest.
DC looking for a "loophole"
DC seems to think there is a chance they may loose all of their marbles in the Heller case. If that happens, as D.C. Council Chairman Vincent C. Gray, a Democrat, puts it:
Nice to know they are preparing to strip your Constitutional rights away in any way that they can.
D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty says:
"We'd have to evaluate the court's decision, then look at what revisions in our own statutes would allow us to have the maximum restrictions on guns in the District."
Nice to know they are preparing to strip your Constitutional rights away in any way that they can.
D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty says:
"Any time you lose any type of ruling on any piece of legislation, you have to make the legislation adapt to whatever the ruling is."Would that be like when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was passed and gun manufacturers complied with the law, then the gun banners cried out about how the gun industry "easily found ways around the law?" Maybe this is all similar, but to me, hearing the DC leadership talk about how they can restrict you rights before the gavel is swung says alot about how serious they intend to take a ruling.
Monday, March 17, 2008
New deadly self defense weapon!!
It's apparently called.....ricin!
HAHAHAHA!! Of all of the things to say to the Police!
Emphasis mine. I am as pro self defense as it gets but WOW! How can someone justify this stuff for self defense and keep a straight face? I mean, I like to sit in my basement and craft the latest defensive loads for my guns just as much as anybody, but can you imagine?
It is certainly deadly but it takes days to affect the victim, and there is a serious risk of killing many of the wrong people. It's not like you can just blow it in an attackers face and run them off. You stand as great of a chance of inadvertently killing yourself.
Ricin is a toxin that is made from the castor bean that can kill people dead. As far as toxins go it's about middle of the road in potency, but it's easy to make which makes it an ideal weapon for people like this guy, unless you kill yourself while making it which is entirely possible.
HAHAHAHA!! Of all of the things to say to the Police!
"He just confirmed that it was not intended for anybody," Erich Bergendorff said in a telephone interview from his home north of San Diego in Escondido. "It was something that would be used for his own purposes, for self-defense."
Emphasis mine. I am as pro self defense as it gets but WOW! How can someone justify this stuff for self defense and keep a straight face? I mean, I like to sit in my basement and craft the latest defensive loads for my guns just as much as anybody, but can you imagine?
"Hey Earl, didja get yerself some of that there ricin for home defense? I heard its a reeeeeel manstopper!"
It is certainly deadly but it takes days to affect the victim, and there is a serious risk of killing many of the wrong people. It's not like you can just blow it in an attackers face and run them off. You stand as great of a chance of inadvertently killing yourself.
Ricin is a toxin that is made from the castor bean that can kill people dead. As far as toxins go it's about middle of the road in potency, but it's easy to make which makes it an ideal weapon for people like this guy, unless you kill yourself while making it which is entirely possible.
Tuesday is the day..
..that starts the eradication of this nations stupid patchwork of gunlaws. March 18th of 2008 is the day that starts correcting many wrongs. It will take several months to get a decision, but this is the one that counts. I cannot see this going the wrong way.
The Heller case goes before the Supreme Court to determine whether DC's gun ban violates the rights of American citizens. I believe Mr. Heller's attorney, Mr. Alan Gura, is on point from what I've read and I wish them the best.
The Heller case goes before the Supreme Court to determine whether DC's gun ban violates the rights of American citizens. I believe Mr. Heller's attorney, Mr. Alan Gura, is on point from what I've read and I wish them the best.
Friday, March 14, 2008
Oklahoma campus carry passes in the House
Short story here. There is still a long way to go. Notice how NBC4 puts this quote right under the headline:
Fair and balanced and all that. The opposition to college carry only has emotion to use because facts are clearly on the other side of the argument. I don't really like how this bill caters to the military and not the whitewashed masses. I think all people should be able to carry an effective tool for self defense.
Update: The bill stalls. More coverage here.
State Rep. Ray McCarter Says It's 'The Craziest Thing' He's Ever Seen
Fair and balanced and all that. The opposition to college carry only has emotion to use because facts are clearly on the other side of the argument. I don't really like how this bill caters to the military and not the whitewashed masses. I think all people should be able to carry an effective tool for self defense.
Update: The bill stalls. More coverage here.
Home invasion
In Maryland.
If only there was a small yet effective tool that would have enabled the woman to defend herself from two knife wielding madmen bent on killing her then Maryland would surely be interested in allowing such tools to be used by its citizens, right?
Oh, I guess not.
If only there was a small yet effective tool that would have enabled the woman to defend herself from two knife wielding madmen bent on killing her then Maryland would surely be interested in allowing such tools to be used by its citizens, right?
Oh, I guess not.
Too bad I don't live in Iowa
If only something like this would happen here I could make a fortune.
Oooh, I need a red filter for my 6P and I can play right here in Va! Cumberland is a ways off though, so I'll just have to keep hoping that someone around here will pay up for kitten carcasses.
Oooh, I need a red filter for my 6P and I can play right here in Va! Cumberland is a ways off though, so I'll just have to keep hoping that someone around here will pay up for kitten carcasses.
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
DC or Oceania
DC will be taking a page from Boston's book and start going door-to-door looking for drugs and guns. So I guess the 4th amendment is just some words on paper, to hell with it.
I don't care if they "ask" the citizens if they can come in. When armed agents of the state show up at your door and want to come in then there are some serious changes that need to be made. Period.
The DC Mayor and Police Chief are claiming that they are giving amnesty:
How Boston decided to start this whole mess considering that they have been through this sort of thing before.
I think the real criminals in DC are the ones who are elected.
Update: It seems that DC residents are not so naive after all. Good for them. Too bad DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier still tries to play everyone a fool:
And you wonder why you have this:
No shit.
I'm not defending people that neglect their children, but what the government considers "abuse or neglect" and "certain things that we just can't ignore" sounds equivocal to me, and I am a very skeptical person when it comes down to government honoring a citizens rights.
Think I'm crazy? What happens when the police show up for an "appointment" and they see your Japanese Maple grow operation?
Exactly.
Update: Check out the consent form. Nothing in there says anything about "certain things that we just can't ignore." Definitely unconstitutional.
Here is the brochure for the "Safe Homes Initiative." I find this interesting:
When you let agents of the state who possess the power to seize and arrest into your house, you open doors that you just can't shut.
I don't care if they "ask" the citizens if they can come in. When armed agents of the state show up at your door and want to come in then there are some serious changes that need to be made. Period.
The DC Mayor and Police Chief are claiming that they are giving amnesty:
"If we come across illegal contraband, we will confiscate it," Lanier said. "But amnesty means amnesty. We're trying to get guns and drugs off the street."Then in the very next sentence:
All seized guns will be tested to see whether they have been used in criminal activity. If they have, police may initiate a criminal investigation, Lanier said.So what happens to the guns that have been used in criminal activity? It's safe to say that an arrest will be made thus violating any amnesty. Are they going to let citizens know any of this when they bray at the door? This seems like a great way to trample all over peoples rights through intimidation, not to mention circumventing the Constitution.
How Boston decided to start this whole mess considering that they have been through this sort of thing before.
I think the real criminals in DC are the ones who are elected.
Update: It seems that DC residents are not so naive after all. Good for them. Too bad DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier still tries to play everyone a fool:
The chief now says any searches would be done only by appointment unless there is an "urgent need,"Uh huh, and what exactly constitutes an "urgent need?" And my, my, how about that amnesty:
Amnesty will be granted for any gun possession charges but not for any crimes committed with that gun.
The chief said police also will be alert to child abuse or other social services issues that may require government follow up.
"If we go into a home and we see a case of severe abuse or neglect; I mean, there's certain things that we just can't ignore," Lanier said.
And you wonder why you have this:
Since the program was announced weeks ago, it has been delayed in part because of fears citizens' rights will be violated.
No shit.
I'm not defending people that neglect their children, but what the government considers "abuse or neglect" and "certain things that we just can't ignore" sounds equivocal to me, and I am a very skeptical person when it comes down to government honoring a citizens rights.
Think I'm crazy? What happens when the police show up for an "appointment" and they see your Japanese Maple grow operation?
Exactly.
Update: Check out the consent form. Nothing in there says anything about "certain things that we just can't ignore." Definitely unconstitutional.
Here is the brochure for the "Safe Homes Initiative." I find this interesting:
What else will they be "obligated" to seize? Perhaps disposable cameras? And this:While the main objective of the program is to search for illegal weapons, if drugs or other illegal contraband are found in plain view in your home during a SafeHomes search, officers will be obligated to seize the items in question. You will not be prosecuted for any drugs found in your home.
By cooperating with police, you are doing an important service to your community. Your efforts will help put an end to violence by bringing criminals to justice.How will criminals be brought to justice if they are giving amnesty? More lies:
What they don't say is that "without risk of arrest" is cast aside if they see "certain things they just can't ignore" which could be almost anything they want.Parents or guardians will have the option to voluntarily allow their neighborhood foot beat officers to enter their homes to conduct safety checks for weapons without risk of arrest.
When you let agents of the state who possess the power to seize and arrest into your house, you open doors that you just can't shut.
The treasure chest
Seriously, BBC is just chock full of firearm and general weapon stupidity. I found some articles by accident and I thought I would share some of the great ideas that the Brits have.
First up, from this gem we have these tips for handing in weapons at an amnesty:
Emphasis mine. Way to encourage the masses to flock to the police! Oh, and don't worry about crime:
That article also says to avoid "dodgy areas" and then links to this article that advises you on how to "stay safe." Some of the goodness that this piece shares:
Super believable. Completely absent is advise on what to do when someone breaks into your house. Here's my favorite general advise:
Well it's a good thing they already got that danger covered. If you feel inclined, they have a link called "loads of info for staying safe."
At first all of the purple elephants make you think it's a bad link, but if you click on the link called "free personal safety guides" there is actually lots of great info like this one about home security. The section about what do do if there's an intruder in the house leaves much to be desired, and there is no mention of self defense at all.
Rizor is a wealth of optimism, letting the citizens of England know that you can't carry a knife:
"Anyone knows" about self defense? What other ways? Perhaps pepper spray? Something? Nothing? Actually they don't have a link to "defensive" weapons because they consider all weapons offensive:
Using it "if you got the chance" includes self defense. In Britain there is this huge void for what to do if you are actully under attack. There is no advise at all besides "cal the police."
I could go on literally all week within the BBC website, but I thought I would cover a little part of the insanity that is the UK. There are meny people here that want to share the same insanity here in the US. Lets hope that never happens.
First up, from this gem we have these tips for handing in weapons at an amnesty:
Look out for weapons amnesties, in which you can hand in an offensive weapon without risk of prosecution.
Whatever the reason you have an offensive weapon, police advice is to contact your local station to arrange to hand it in. But bear in mind you could still be charged with possession.
Emphasis mine. Way to encourage the masses to flock to the police! Oh, and don't worry about crime:
Uh-huh, like this? Or this? How about in 1999? How about 2008? We're not even going to get into crimes where a knife was used. More good stuff:Even if knife- or gun-crime is an issue in your area, you're unlikely to be a victim of it. News stories about innocent people being shot or stabbed are horrific, but rare.
Yeah, if only this guy had just called the police everything would have been fine. And if you can't defend yourself from gangs your actually safer, probably! Just take our word on it!Don't carry a gun or knife 'just in case'. If the police find them, you'll be in trouble. And anyway, statistically you're more likely to be shot if you're carrying a gun. The same probably goes for knives.
If you believe you're in immediate danger, eg from a gang that uses knives and/or guns, go to the police.
That article also says to avoid "dodgy areas" and then links to this article that advises you on how to "stay safe." Some of the goodness that this piece shares:
Don't tell any caller, including phone callers, that you're alone. Tell them your mum/dad/enormous wrestling-champion big brother is asleep or in the bath.
Super believable. Completely absent is advise on what to do when someone breaks into your house. Here's my favorite general advise:
Don't walk while you talk or text, so you know what's going on around you.
Well it's a good thing they already got that danger covered. If you feel inclined, they have a link called "loads of info for staying safe."
At first all of the purple elephants make you think it's a bad link, but if you click on the link called "free personal safety guides" there is actually lots of great info like this one about home security. The section about what do do if there's an intruder in the house leaves much to be desired, and there is no mention of self defense at all.
Rizor is a wealth of optimism, letting the citizens of England know that you can't carry a knife:
It's no excuse to say, 'I need it to defend myself'. The court is unlikely to accept this. Anyone knows that there are plenty of other ways of defending yourself or keeping out of trouble.
"Anyone knows" about self defense? What other ways? Perhaps pepper spray? Something? Nothing? Actually they don't have a link to "defensive" weapons because they consider all weapons offensive:
It is a crime to be in a public place with something that could be used as a weapon.
This covers a wide range of things - from baseball bats, screwdrivers and broken bottles, to real weapons like knives and guns.You don't actually have to use the weapon to be guilty. You don't even have to threaten to use it. It is enough for the prosecution to prove that you had it with you and meant to use it if you got the chance.
Using it "if you got the chance" includes self defense. In Britain there is this huge void for what to do if you are actully under attack. There is no advise at all besides "cal the police."
I could go on literally all week within the BBC website, but I thought I would cover a little part of the insanity that is the UK. There are meny people here that want to share the same insanity here in the US. Lets hope that never happens.
Jackass
What kind of friend helps you kill yourself? Oh, it isn't what we think! He was trying to scare her straight! Hopefully this guy a lengthy sentence, but since we're talking about Massachusetts I have my doubts.
Update
In my post, part 3 - Ballistic vest live fire test, I linked to a piece from Time.com called America's Most Wanted Guns which highlights an ATF study of guns used in crime. The gun at the top of the list is a Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver which is similar to the Taurus 85 .38 Special that I used in the test, and the reason why I linked to that piece.
Somehow I missed number 5 which is the Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun, a gun I also used in the test to fire two slugs into the vest, one of which penetrated. I think that is important to note since the 12 gauge Mossberg 500 is available just about anywhere.
I know many people who own the Mossberg 500, and the reason is because it is high quality and affordable. That's all.
Somehow I missed number 5 which is the Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun, a gun I also used in the test to fire two slugs into the vest, one of which penetrated. I think that is important to note since the 12 gauge Mossberg 500 is available just about anywhere.
I know many people who own the Mossberg 500, and the reason is because it is high quality and affordable. That's all.
Monday, March 10, 2008
Regurgitation...
..of the same old garbage, this time from KAIT in Jonesboro, AR. Will Carter reports what everyone else has already covered over a month ago with the same tired points. Here is my past coverage.
Regardless of what these journalists say, nobody is trying to sell guns to children. Parents may be buying guns for their children to learn how to handle a firearm, but that is their buisiness, and it is certainly a far cry from this trash.
Why is it a bad thing to have a gun in a color other than black? If I let my kids shoot my black DPMS AP4 is that less dangerous than if I let them shoot a purple one? Parenting and education in regards to gun safety make kids safe, silly laws constructed by some ignorant politician will not.
Education works. More common sense:
Regardless of what these journalists say, nobody is trying to sell guns to children. Parents may be buying guns for their children to learn how to handle a firearm, but that is their buisiness, and it is certainly a far cry from this trash.
Why is it a bad thing to have a gun in a color other than black? If I let my kids shoot my black DPMS AP4 is that less dangerous than if I let them shoot a purple one? Parenting and education in regards to gun safety make kids safe, silly laws constructed by some ignorant politician will not.
Here is the meat and potatoes of the hysterics:
"You can look at these guns here, and this one for instance. It's a functional B-B gun that looks just like a Walther 9 millimeter. Put yourself in an officer's position. He has a split second to decide whether this is real or not," said DARE Officer Kevin Foust of the Jonesboro Police Department.So nothing has changed in the last 50 years or so; police work is tough and dangerous. So tell me what good is this law then? Until then many toy guns looked really real. Now they make it seem like every gangbanger has a painted gun, so what would stop them from painting the orange muzzle of a toy gun to make it look real, or painting the muzzle of a real gun orange to make it look like a toy? This is not a new topic, but it has never been an issue and I doubt it ever will be.
Now we go to the gooey center: 
Both police and those who sell guns say the problem lies with the toy guns. While they do have an orange tip on the end that is supposed to signify that they are not real, they also look a lot like the real guns, and have some of the same features.
"It's going to be hard to distinguish if this is a paintball gun or if this is a 9 millimeter," said Foust as he looked at paintball gun.
And making things more difficult is an array of new colors. Pink has become hot in the last two years, making it even more complicated to tell what's a toy and what's not.Like I said, it's not like this is something new. Historically, toy guns have always looked real:
Yes, occasionally some kid gets killed by a cop who thinks the toy gun is real. I'm sure thousands of years ago some kid with a stick was killed when a Roman Centurian mistook it for a real spear. It's tragic but it's reality, and it's rare.
Women want guns in pink, purple, and whatever other colors that match their latest outfits. Hunters want camouflage, olive drab, and flat dark earth. Kids don't buy guns, adults do. Why can't they have it in the color they want. You can buy a Tazer in designer colors, are cops gonna start blasting people who carry a clunky piece of plastic? What about race guns? All of those accessories and colors could be misconstrued. What is the solution, banning spray paint? How about soap? I mean this is just another way to paint guns in a bad light, pardon my pun.
At least there is some realist dialog in this piece:
"If you are going to have guns around your kids, play or real guns, then you need to explain to them right then and there that once you pull the trigger on a real gun it's over," said Payne.
Education works. More common sense:
"If you are going to buy your kids toy guns, you as a parent need to be responsible for teaching them safety of a toy gun - who not to point it at. A policeman would be someone not to point it at," Noell.And there you have it.
Please sir, can I lick your boots!
Somewhere along the way Britain ceased to be great. How the citizens put up with this sort of governmental behaviour is beyond explaination.
And then tell me that this makes you feel any better:
I know our record ain't that great right now but damn! What that country needs is a good old fashioned revolution.
The article justifies the use of this equipment using the often cited fear of terrorism:
"Acts of terrorism have shaken the world in recent years and security precautions have been tightened globally," said Clive Beattie, the chief executive of British-based ThruVision.
Once again, there are not terrorists around every corner. That dog don't hunt. How would you feel about this guy checking your daughter out at the entrance to that Jonas Brothers concert: 
And then tell me that this makes you feel any better:
The firm says the camera does not reveal physical body details and the screening is harmless.Riiiiight! Sure thing officer, please check my wife and daughter for weapons with your unobtrusive device. Thank you sir, can I lick your boots now?
Firepower is what the ladies really like
A good video piece called Women and Weaponry from WTAE news in Pennsylvania, very much void of ignorance and hysterics. Check it out.
News anchor Sally Wiggin lets loose with a .38 Special and then almost smashes her forehead in with a .44 Magnum.
The video shows how popular shooting and firearms, hadguns in particular, are becoming to women. Inspiration ranges from home defense to just plain old general knowledge.
Good stuff.
News anchor Sally Wiggin lets loose with a .38 Special and then almost smashes her forehead in with a .44 Magnum.
The video shows how popular shooting and firearms, hadguns in particular, are becoming to women. Inspiration ranges from home defense to just plain old general knowledge.
Good stuff.
The new chemical brothers
Two 15 year olds are being charged with a felony after making a "bomb" and blowing up a trashcan at school. Sounds logical right? Here's what bothers me:
Granted, setting this thing off in school is a foolish and immature thing to do, but 15 year olds are foolish and immature. For this petty crime should these kids get this?
At least they didn't call it an "IED" because that would have driven people over the top. School officials bore me these days. I guess their bored as well and that's why they conjure up images of "terrorists" who make "destructive devices" and set them off in school. Bastards.
The device was made with household cleaning chemicals, the school resource officer said.Kids have made these for years, and they are not so much as "bombs" as they are noise makers. They make a really loud and scary BANG, but they have more bark than bite. If you held one when it went off I doubt it would break skin. They are usually made by mixing Drano or toilet bowl cleaner with pieces of aluminum foil in a plastic container. You can do the same thing with Baking soda and vinegar. Big deal.
Granted, setting this thing off in school is a foolish and immature thing to do, but 15 year olds are foolish and immature. For this petty crime should these kids get this?
One teen has been charged with making and using a destructive device, a felony offense, and reckless endangerment. Investigators said they intend to charge a second teen with the same offenses in connection with the incident.
The students could face up to 25 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000 for the felony charge.Way to go team! Saving the planet from destruction, great catch! Go home now and rest your head knowing that these two marauding masochistic miscreants are off the streets for good, thanks to your crime fighting efforts!
At least they didn't call it an "IED" because that would have driven people over the top. School officials bore me these days. I guess their bored as well and that's why they conjure up images of "terrorists" who make "destructive devices" and set them off in school. Bastards.
Thursday, March 6, 2008
Part 3 - Ballistic Vest Live Fire Test
In the last two parts I discussed the fundamentals of how a cartridge works and how personal body armor protects. To learn more about cartridges, click here. To learn more about body armor, click here.
In this post I show an illustrated test of a PASGT ballistic vest against many different threats. There are several of these tests on the web but none that I have come across have brought to bear a full range of cartridges. I decided to step up and set things straight.
This post is in direct response to this particular news article called "Tracking Bullets" that is full of inaccuracies. There are many news articles like this that just leave me shaking my head. Journalists who don't know any better think they're on to something, but they just end up placing erroneous statements on the air that negatively affect the public's opinion of things like firearms and gun shows. Bureaucrats like Ted Kennedy push legislation to ban things like the non-existent "cop killer" and “Teflon coated” bullets based on bad information or media hysteria, and this is sometimes based on the idea that any cartridge that can penetrate police officers body armor is "armor piercing."
This test is to show how absurd that train of thought is. Keep the results of this test in mind when someone tries to tell you that they are not trying to ban your hunting rifle, they just want to ban these "cop killer bullets" that they say poses a danger to law enforcement.
Up front I am going to address the ethics of performing this test. This PASGT vest is similar in design and protective qualities as police body armor, and this test is to see what will defeat these types of vests and what won't. However, this information is already pretty well known by those who are familiar with firearms and is widely available on the web. Further, the consequences of a ban on ammunition capable of body armor penetration would be devastating to every hunter or shooter in this country based on my results. It is certain that this protective vest went above and beyond the levels of protection that was intended in its design and I believe that this test does not exploit weaknesses in personal body armor, nor will it endanger lives.
The surplus PASGT vest that I used is approximately 12 years old. It is designed to stop fragmentation and small threats like 9mm rounds from a pistol. As you can see, the collar and shoulder pads have been removed. Body armor has to be wrapped around something firm with a little give in order to spread the impact of the projectile out enough to stop it with no penetration. In real world environments this would be the body of the individual wearing the vest, but that was not an option for this test so I had to come up with something else. Here is the PASGT vest before I put holes in it:
Click for larger image
To enable the vest to work, I made two impact panels. An impact panel was made using a phonebook wrapped with two polar fleece shirts to make it firm but flexible. Two of these impact panels were placed together inside a polar fleece shirt, using T-shirts in between to keep them separated. The whole thing was then covered with a T-shirt and finally a blue laundry bag to keep it all together as a firm but flexible impact bag. This impact bag was not intended to simulate human tissue; it was merely a way to give the vest something to impact against. For the purposes of the test, if a bullet or projectile penetrated the vest would be considered potentially fatal.
So I have this "bullet proof" vest, something to put inside of it to enable it to function properly, what else do I need?
"Guns. Lots of guns." - Neo, from the movie The Matrix.
Figure 1. Click for larger image
Below are the types of firearms used, the numbers correspond with the cartridges pictured:
1 & 2 - Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum
3 - AMD-65 chambered in 7.62x39mm
4 - DPMS Panther Lite 16 chambered in 5.56x45mm NATO
5 - Ruger Super Blackhawk with 7 1/2" barrel chambered in .44 Remington Magnum
6 - Springfield Armory 1911A1 V-10 Ultra-Compact chambered in .45 ACP
7 - Taurus Model 85 Ultra-Light chambered in .38 Special
8 - Glock 17 chambered in 9mm Luger
9 - Walther model PPK chambered in "7.65mm" which is European for .32 Auto
10 - Marlin Model 925M chambered in .22 Magnum
11 & 12 - Mossberg 500 12 Gauge with a 20" rifled slug barrel
13 - CVA Firebolt 209 Magnum .45 caliber with 110 grain powder capacity
14 - Ruger Police Six with 4" barrel chambered in .357 Magnum
15 & 16 - PSE Thunderbolt compound bow set at 62 lbs.
** - Ruger 10-22 pictured at left was not used in this test
The cartridges/projectiles fired/flung by these weapons:
Figure 2. Click for larger image
Below is the list of cartridges pictured in Figure 2 that were fired in the firearms pictured in Figure 1. To the right of each cartridge is an unfired bullet; to the right of that is a fired bullet that was recovered during the test from the impact bag. The fired 7.62x39mm and .45 caliber muzzle loader bullets were not recovered. I tried to use commonly available factory ammunition where possible but some ammunition I did not have on hand. Most of this ammunition can be purchased at your local Wal-Mart. Some of the ammunition fired during this test includes hand loads, none of which were loaded "hot," and represent velocities and ballistics that are equivalent to standard factory ammunition.
Here are the cartridges fired:
1 - .300 Winchester Magnum hand load with a 180 grain Barnes XLC bullet and 70.5 grains of IMR-4350. Muzzle velocity approximately 2,900 feet per second (FPS)
2 - .300 Winchester Magnum hand load with a 165 grain Nosler Partition bullet and 72.5 grains of IMR-4350. Muzzle velocity approximately 3,100 fps
3 - 7.62x39 firing factory Wolf 122 grain full metal jacket (FMJ). Muzzle velocity 2396 fps
4 - .223 Remington firing factory Federal 50 grain Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP). Muzzle velocity approximately 3,200 fps
5 - .44 Remington Magnum hand load with a 240 grain HP/XTP and 10 grains of Alliant Unique pistol powder. Muzzle velocity approximately 1,300 fps
6 - .45 ACP factory Winchester White Box Personal Defense 230 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 880 fps
7 - .38 Special factory Winchester White Box Personal Defense 125 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 945 fps
8 - 9mm Luger factory Remington UMC 115 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,155 fps
9 - .32 Automatic factory Remington UMC 71 grain Metal Case (MC). Muzzle velocity 905 fps
10 - .22 Winchester Magnum factory CCI Maxi-Mag 40 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,875 fps
11 - 12 Gauge factory Winchester Super-X 2 3/4 inch, 1 oz. rifled slug. Muzzle velocity 1,600 fps
12 - 12 Gauge factory Hornady SST 2 3/4 inch, 300 grain sabot slug. Muzzle velocity 2,000 fps
13 - .45 caliber muzzle loader. Hornady 200 grain 40 caliber SST-ML sabot. Muzzle velocity approximately 2,000+ fps
14 - .357 Magnum factory Federal Premium Personal Defense 130 grain Hydra-Shok JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,410 fps
15 - Crimson Talon broadhead, 100 grains on an Easton Carbon Epic arrow
16 - Rocky Mountain Snyper 2-blade, 100 grains on an Easton Carbon Epic arrow
Now that we have the specifics, let's move on to some shooting. The shooting part took 3 days including the vest setup, shooting, and documenting the results with over 320 pictures. The below results are not in the order that they were fired, and are listed by using the numbered illustrations in Figures 1 and 2. Distance from the shooter to the front of the vest was between 10 – 12 feet.
1 - Winchester Model 70 in .300 Winchester Magnum (WinMag). In the top ten most popular cartridges since its creation in 1963, the .300 WinMag is used for virtually all big game in North America. The Model 70 is amongst the most popular and successful rifles ever made and are owned by millions of sportsman throughout the US. The Model 70 was used extensively by US snipers in Vietnam and is still used today by law enforcement snipers.
Cartridge number 1 is the 180 grain Barnes XLC bullet that is blue in color. Before anyone wets their britches, the blue stuff is a "dry film coating" that is designed to reduce bore fouling. This coating also reduces velocity by 11%, but makes the bore a snap to clean. This is not the dreaded "Teflon" coating that so many people erroneously believe "lubricates" the shot-hole and makes it "armor piercing." Teflon was initially used on hard bullets like bronze that wear out the rifle bore quickly. These hard bullets were coated with Teflon to prevent bore wear, and later they became popular because they prevented fouling in rifle bores that fired traditional copper bullets. Again, Teflon coating on bullets has nothing to do with penetration and is pretty much obsolete.
This particular bullet is designed for hunting large game animals and provides deep penetration with controlled expansion. I'm pretty sure that this round will penetrate the vest. The Barnes XLC penetrated in the front and out the back of the vest and the bullet was never recovered. Entrance hole: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BarnesXLCIn.jpg Exit hole: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BarnesXLCExit.jpg
Out of curiosity I tied the vest behind a tree about as big around as my leg and fired at the tree, just to see if it would make it through. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ImpactThruTree.jpg
The Barnes XLC went through the tree and penetrated the front of the vest! http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/TreePenetration3.jpg http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/TreeVestPenetration.jpg
The fully expanded bullet was recovered about two thirds of the way inside if the impact bag and can be seen in Figure 2, cartridge 1.
2 - The Model 70 firing the 165 grain Nosler Partition, long considered the bullet to which all others are measured. This hunting bullet is also designed for deep penetration with controlled expansion. The bullet struck the vest in the center where two layers of Kevlar overlap. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/NoslerPartitionPenetrate2Layers.jpg
The bullet penetrated these two layers and the impact bag and stopped in the back of the vest. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/300NoslerPenetrate.jpg
Had the bullet struck the front of the vest where it did not overlap it would have certainly penetrated clean through the vest. Keep in mind that this is a standard hunting rifle and cartridge that you can purchase at Wal-Mart.
3 - The AMD-65 is a carbine type rifle firing the 7.62x39mm cartridge. The bullet, being 7.62mm, is the same diameter as the .300 Winchester Magnum, but is not as long or heavy and lacks the extra power that the .300 WinMag provides. The rifle "looks" like an AK-47, but it is in fact just a semi-auto "look alike" rifle that shares some similarities, like being called “high powered” by the media. It is about as powerful as your great-grand-pappy’s .30-.30 that hangs by a nail on the wall over the mantle.
The 7.62x39mm had to be fired twice. The first round penetrated the vest and skewed downward and into the ground after it hit the impact bag. I had a feeling that it had enough oomph to go all the way through considering this particular cartridge had a FMJ bullet that is not designed to expand, but is designed only for penetration. I was right.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/762x39mmImpact2.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/762x39ThruandThru2.jpg
4 - DPMS Panther Lite 16 firing a .223 Remington cartridge made by Federal cartridge company. The 5.56x45mm NATO is the cartridge that the US military uses in the M16/M4 and is virtually identical to the .223 Remington, with the same external dimensions. They can be fired in the same gun with the same chamber and produce the same ballistics. The main difference between the two is that the 5.56x45mm NATO has a slightly thicker case.
As can be expected, the fast moving hollowpoint bullet penetrated into the vest and was stopped inside of the impact bag. The bullet was recovered in little teeny pieces.
Impact - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223Impact.jpg
Penetration - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223
Bullet fragments - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223Aftermath.jpg
5 - Ruger Super Blackhawk firing the mighty .44 Magnum. This single action revolver is no longer “the most powerful handgun in the world,” but it is popular for hunting and target shooting. With the 7 1/2 inch barrel this gun is not designed for carry; it is designed to squeeze all of the power out of the cartridge. A longer barrel allows more room for the powder to burn, thus giving it more velocity. A longer sight radius is also a plus. This vest is not designed to stop this cartridge but I figured I would give it a try.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/44MagImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/44MagSlug.jpg
The vest stopped the .44 Magnum cold. Truly above and beyond what it was intended for, stopping this round puts it in the NIJ level IIIA territory.
6 - Springfield Armory 1911A1 firing the .45 ACP. The 1911 is a design that is almost a century old and is one of the most popular firearms ever made. Cutting its teeth on the battlefields of WWI, it is still in use by our military in a limited capacity, but is extremely popular in the US by citizens who carry it as a defensive pistol. It is also widely used in competition where its light trigger pull and legendary reliability give it an edge over the competition. The .45 ACP is a street and combat proven cartridge that provides plenty of power with the advantage of shoot ability. How did the vest stand up?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/45Impact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/45SlugStopped.jpg
The 230 grain bullet is almost as large as the .44 Magnum but the vest had no problem stopping it.
7 - Taurus 85 firing the .38 Special. Snubby revolvers like this have been around for centuries. They are designed to be small, light, and concealable. The .38 Special round that it fires has been around since the 1902. Frequently and erroneously referred to as a "Saturday night special," the snubby .38 Special is the gun and cartridge most used in homicides in the US, but way more often it rides comfortably in the pockets of the defensive minded citizen to prevent homicides. Did the vest stop this little beast?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/38SpecialImpact.jpg
Bullet in vest: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/38SpecialSlug.jpg
Sure did. Not all that impressive huh?
8 - Glock 17 firing the 9mm Luger cartridge. Although not the first, this gun helped bring about the era of the high capacity "plastic" pistol. Absolutely reliable, this pistol withstands very high round counts and is found in nightstands and holsters worldwide. The 9mm has been around for over a century and is the most popular handgun cartridge around. The 9mm FMJ rounds used by our military bring this cartridge much disdain, but with modern expanding bullets it is a solid performer that will continue to protect for years to come. The 9mm is known for incredible penetration with light and fast FMJ rounds, but those do not do much damage. I decided to shoot the vest with run-of-the-mill hollowpoints that are very common today. Here are the results:
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/9mmImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/9mmBulletRemoval2.jpg
The vest had no problems with this round. On to the next one.
9 - This is a post-war Walther PPK chambered for the .32 Auto which was the weapon of choice for James Bond for many years. This used to be a standard round for many European law enforcement officers but has fallen by the wayside since the 9mm became so popular. Today the .32 Auto is considered too underpowered for everyday carry. Of note is that the .32 Auto bullet is just a smidgen larger in diameter than the 7.62x39mm and .300 WinMag. Did the vest have any problems with this baby?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/32AutoImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/32AutoSlug.jpg
No problem. Now to try the smallest cartridge in the test.
10 - The Marlin 925M chambered in the little .22 Magnum. This bolt action rifle is affordable and reliable. Used to shoot tin cans or kill small critters, the .22 Magnum gives better performance than the standard .22 long rifle. It was introduced in 1959 and serves as the only rimfire cartridge introduced in the 20th century. It is also the only rimfire used in this test. How did the smallest cartridge tested do against a vest that stopped a .44 Magnum?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/22MagImpact.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/22MagPenetration.jpg
The little Magnum not only penetrated the vest, it went through the impact bag and struck the back of the vest hard enough to leave a copper mark on the fabric! How do you explain that? This round is for shooting squirrels and it penetrated the vest? Do you think we should ban this round because of this? Now we're seeing the results that I suspected.
11 - Mossberg 500 pump action shotgun firing 1 oz. rifled slugs. It doesn't get any more basic then this folks. This shotgun is in the hands of untold numbers of our service men in Iraq right now. That's right; it is a weapon of war just like many shotguns before it. It is also the beloved shotgun of tens of millions of hunters nationwide and used to take game that feeds untold numbers of people year round. This gun is inexpensive and solidly built. The 1 oz. slug can be used for a variety of different tasks and is used to kill the most dangerous and deadly game animals in the world, to include enemies of this nation. Does it penetrate the vest? Let's find out.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/12GuageSlugImpact2.jpg
Aftermath: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/OMFG.jpg
It did not penetrate the Kevlar, but the slug pushed the front of the vest almost through to the back side. The Kevlar panels in the back of the vest ripped loose and tore through the phonebook! This was the last round fired at the vest for obvious reasons. I had a suspicion that this heavy hitter should wait until last.
12 - Mossberg 500 firing the Hornady SST slug. This slug is a copper jacketed sabot designed to give hunters a little more range out of their shotguns by making it perform similar to a rifle. How did it do?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/HornadyShotgunSlugImpact2.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/HornadyShotgunSlugPenetration.jpg
This slug had no problem going through the vest. Would that make it "armor piercing?" Should it be banned? Before you answer, check out the next participant of the test…
13 - The CVA Firebolt 209 Magnum firing a .45 caliber bullet. This muzzle loading rifle is as primitive as firearms get. It is pretty much just a steel tube with a hole at one end wrapped in a plastic stock. To load this rifle you first pour black powder down the barrel and then ram a bullet down until it seats against the powder. An ignition cap, in this case a 209 shotgun primer, is then placed in front of the bolt or hammer and you're loaded. Black powder is gunpowder that is made by mixing charcoal, saltpeter, and sulfur. Gunpowder originated in China sometime in the 9th century. This is the same technology used during the American Revolution and the American Civil War. It can't possibly pierce the Kevlar vest can it?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/MuzzleLoaderImpact.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/MuzzleLoaderPenetration.jpg
Think again! 300+ year old technology penetrated a vest that had no problem stopping a .44 Magnum! We should ban it right? For the children! I mean it is "armor piercing" and all. Next!
14 - The Ruger Police Six chambered in the .357 Magnum. This gun and cartridge, as its name implies, was carried by our nation’s law enforcement and armed citizens for over 50 years and is still in the holsters of millions of good citizens today. Firing at somewhat high velocity for a handgun, the .357 Magnum has serious street credentials for racking up a high number of one-shot stops against a threat. I was not sure if it would go through or not.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/357Impact.jpg
I did not get a picture of the bullet lodged in the vest but it was stopped. Going back to my post about body armor and checking the NIJ chart shows that a police vest that stops the faster .357 Magnum is rated as Level II. Pretty good for a surplus vest! Now we’re done shooting firearms and it’s time to bring out the bow and arrow.
15 - A PSE compound bow firing a Crimson Talon broadhead. I'm sure "Crimson Talon" brings spasms to some of the more hoplophobic who may read this post. I know it "sounds" deadly because we have heard that frightening "talon" word before, Eh? Courtesy of The Gun Zone:
Super deadly and all that typical sensationalized yellow journalism, and now these are CRIMSON! Anyways, I was more than convinced that a broadhead would go clean through the vest. I've seen broadheads fired through 5 gallon buckets filled with sand that had no problems stopping a .44 Magnum. Here is the skinny.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BroadheadImpact.jpg
Inside the vest: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ArrowBarelyPenetrates.jpg
Stopped cold. The sound it made when it hit was sickening. As you can see it did slightly penetrate but the wound sustained by the wearer would be superficial. Next up is an expanding broadhead!
16 - The PSE bow shooting the Rocky Mountain Snyper 2-bladed expanding broadhead! That sounds like alot of deadliness! The arrow speed is around 300 fps. How did this one do?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ExpandingBroadheadImpactClose.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ExpandingBroadheadPenetration.jpg
I call this one inconclusive. The arrow did penetrate about four inches but it hit almost directly in the shot-hole from the .223 Remington. The blades did have to deploy and cut a 2 ½ inch path through the Kevlar which is no easy task, but I still think it's inconclusive. I believe that a field point or a 2 – 3 bladed cutting point broadhead would have no problems. Time will tell.
So that's all of the weapons I fired at the body armor. This test confirmed much of what I already knew; "bullet proof" vests are not bullet proof, they are bullet resistant and they are only designed to stop handgun bullets, not rifle bullets. The muzzle loader verified that. To bring my point home, here is a picture of the .44 Magnum, which the vest stopped, next to the .22 Magnum, which the vest did not:
Click for larger image
A picture is worth a thousand words. Here’s a quick review:
.300 Winchester Magnum, both – Penetrated
7.62x39mm -------------------------– Penetrated
.223 Remington –-------------------- Penetrated
.44 Magnum ------------------------– Stopped
.45 ACP –------------------------------ Stopped
.38 Special –--------------------------- Stopped
9mm ---------------------------------– Stopped
.32 Auto –----------------------------- Stopped
.22 Magnum –------------------------ Penetrated
12 Gauge slug, 1 oz ----------------– Stopped
12 Gauge slug, Hornady SST -----– Penetrated
.45 Caliber muzzle Loader --------– Penetrated
.357 Magnum -----------------------– Stopped
Crimson Talon broadhead --------– Stopped
Rocky Mountain broadhead ------– Inconclusive
Out of 16 projectiles; 6 penetrated, 9 were stopped, and 1 was inconclusive. No handgun rounds pierced the vest. All rifles pierced the vest. I will have to re-visit the bow and arrow some day to get some better data.
Too bad the vest was totally destroyed by the 1 oz slug or I would fire more stuff at it. Up until that last shot the vest was still in good enough shape to provide lots of protection from incoming rounds. Maybe I will find another vest at a good price and do more testing. I hope this test is useful to someone and helps educate those who need it. For anyone else I hope it was entertaining!
In this post I show an illustrated test of a PASGT ballistic vest against many different threats. There are several of these tests on the web but none that I have come across have brought to bear a full range of cartridges. I decided to step up and set things straight.
This post is in direct response to this particular news article called "Tracking Bullets" that is full of inaccuracies. There are many news articles like this that just leave me shaking my head. Journalists who don't know any better think they're on to something, but they just end up placing erroneous statements on the air that negatively affect the public's opinion of things like firearms and gun shows. Bureaucrats like Ted Kennedy push legislation to ban things like the non-existent "cop killer" and “Teflon coated” bullets based on bad information or media hysteria, and this is sometimes based on the idea that any cartridge that can penetrate police officers body armor is "armor piercing."
This test is to show how absurd that train of thought is. Keep the results of this test in mind when someone tries to tell you that they are not trying to ban your hunting rifle, they just want to ban these "cop killer bullets" that they say poses a danger to law enforcement.
Up front I am going to address the ethics of performing this test. This PASGT vest is similar in design and protective qualities as police body armor, and this test is to see what will defeat these types of vests and what won't. However, this information is already pretty well known by those who are familiar with firearms and is widely available on the web. Further, the consequences of a ban on ammunition capable of body armor penetration would be devastating to every hunter or shooter in this country based on my results. It is certain that this protective vest went above and beyond the levels of protection that was intended in its design and I believe that this test does not exploit weaknesses in personal body armor, nor will it endanger lives.
The surplus PASGT vest that I used is approximately 12 years old. It is designed to stop fragmentation and small threats like 9mm rounds from a pistol. As you can see, the collar and shoulder pads have been removed. Body armor has to be wrapped around something firm with a little give in order to spread the impact of the projectile out enough to stop it with no penetration. In real world environments this would be the body of the individual wearing the vest, but that was not an option for this test so I had to come up with something else. Here is the PASGT vest before I put holes in it:
Click for larger image
To enable the vest to work, I made two impact panels. An impact panel was made using a phonebook wrapped with two polar fleece shirts to make it firm but flexible. Two of these impact panels were placed together inside a polar fleece shirt, using T-shirts in between to keep them separated. The whole thing was then covered with a T-shirt and finally a blue laundry bag to keep it all together as a firm but flexible impact bag. This impact bag was not intended to simulate human tissue; it was merely a way to give the vest something to impact against. For the purposes of the test, if a bullet or projectile penetrated the vest would be considered potentially fatal.
So I have this "bullet proof" vest, something to put inside of it to enable it to function properly, what else do I need?
"Guns. Lots of guns." - Neo, from the movie The Matrix.
Figure 1. Click for larger image
Below are the types of firearms used, the numbers correspond with the cartridges pictured:
1 & 2 - Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum
3 - AMD-65 chambered in 7.62x39mm
4 - DPMS Panther Lite 16 chambered in 5.56x45mm NATO
5 - Ruger Super Blackhawk with 7 1/2" barrel chambered in .44 Remington Magnum
6 - Springfield Armory 1911A1 V-10 Ultra-Compact chambered in .45 ACP
7 - Taurus Model 85 Ultra-Light chambered in .38 Special
8 - Glock 17 chambered in 9mm Luger
9 - Walther model PPK chambered in "7.65mm" which is European for .32 Auto
10 - Marlin Model 925M chambered in .22 Magnum
11 & 12 - Mossberg 500 12 Gauge with a 20" rifled slug barrel
13 - CVA Firebolt 209 Magnum .45 caliber with 110 grain powder capacity
14 - Ruger Police Six with 4" barrel chambered in .357 Magnum
15 & 16 - PSE Thunderbolt compound bow set at 62 lbs.
** - Ruger 10-22 pictured at left was not used in this test
The cartridges/projectiles fired/flung by these weapons:
Figure 2. Click for larger image
Below is the list of cartridges pictured in Figure 2 that were fired in the firearms pictured in Figure 1. To the right of each cartridge is an unfired bullet; to the right of that is a fired bullet that was recovered during the test from the impact bag. The fired 7.62x39mm and .45 caliber muzzle loader bullets were not recovered. I tried to use commonly available factory ammunition where possible but some ammunition I did not have on hand. Most of this ammunition can be purchased at your local Wal-Mart. Some of the ammunition fired during this test includes hand loads, none of which were loaded "hot," and represent velocities and ballistics that are equivalent to standard factory ammunition.
Here are the cartridges fired:
1 - .300 Winchester Magnum hand load with a 180 grain Barnes XLC bullet and 70.5 grains of IMR-4350. Muzzle velocity approximately 2,900 feet per second (FPS)
2 - .300 Winchester Magnum hand load with a 165 grain Nosler Partition bullet and 72.5 grains of IMR-4350. Muzzle velocity approximately 3,100 fps
3 - 7.62x39 firing factory Wolf 122 grain full metal jacket (FMJ). Muzzle velocity 2396 fps
4 - .223 Remington firing factory Federal 50 grain Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP). Muzzle velocity approximately 3,200 fps
5 - .44 Remington Magnum hand load with a 240 grain HP/XTP and 10 grains of Alliant Unique pistol powder. Muzzle velocity approximately 1,300 fps
6 - .45 ACP factory Winchester White Box Personal Defense 230 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 880 fps
7 - .38 Special factory Winchester White Box Personal Defense 125 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 945 fps
8 - 9mm Luger factory Remington UMC 115 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,155 fps
9 - .32 Automatic factory Remington UMC 71 grain Metal Case (MC). Muzzle velocity 905 fps
10 - .22 Winchester Magnum factory CCI Maxi-Mag 40 grain JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,875 fps
11 - 12 Gauge factory Winchester Super-X 2 3/4 inch, 1 oz. rifled slug. Muzzle velocity 1,600 fps
12 - 12 Gauge factory Hornady SST 2 3/4 inch, 300 grain sabot slug. Muzzle velocity 2,000 fps
13 - .45 caliber muzzle loader. Hornady 200 grain 40 caliber SST-ML sabot. Muzzle velocity approximately 2,000+ fps
14 - .357 Magnum factory Federal Premium Personal Defense 130 grain Hydra-Shok JHP. Muzzle velocity 1,410 fps
15 - Crimson Talon broadhead, 100 grains on an Easton Carbon Epic arrow
16 - Rocky Mountain Snyper 2-blade, 100 grains on an Easton Carbon Epic arrow
Now that we have the specifics, let's move on to some shooting. The shooting part took 3 days including the vest setup, shooting, and documenting the results with over 320 pictures. The below results are not in the order that they were fired, and are listed by using the numbered illustrations in Figures 1 and 2. Distance from the shooter to the front of the vest was between 10 – 12 feet.
1 - Winchester Model 70 in .300 Winchester Magnum (WinMag). In the top ten most popular cartridges since its creation in 1963, the .300 WinMag is used for virtually all big game in North America. The Model 70 is amongst the most popular and successful rifles ever made and are owned by millions of sportsman throughout the US. The Model 70 was used extensively by US snipers in Vietnam and is still used today by law enforcement snipers.
Cartridge number 1 is the 180 grain Barnes XLC bullet that is blue in color. Before anyone wets their britches, the blue stuff is a "dry film coating" that is designed to reduce bore fouling. This coating also reduces velocity by 11%, but makes the bore a snap to clean. This is not the dreaded "Teflon" coating that so many people erroneously believe "lubricates" the shot-hole and makes it "armor piercing." Teflon was initially used on hard bullets like bronze that wear out the rifle bore quickly. These hard bullets were coated with Teflon to prevent bore wear, and later they became popular because they prevented fouling in rifle bores that fired traditional copper bullets. Again, Teflon coating on bullets has nothing to do with penetration and is pretty much obsolete.
This particular bullet is designed for hunting large game animals and provides deep penetration with controlled expansion. I'm pretty sure that this round will penetrate the vest. The Barnes XLC penetrated in the front and out the back of the vest and the bullet was never recovered. Entrance hole: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BarnesXLCIn.jpg Exit hole: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BarnesXLCExit.jpg
Out of curiosity I tied the vest behind a tree about as big around as my leg and fired at the tree, just to see if it would make it through. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ImpactThruTree.jpg
The Barnes XLC went through the tree and penetrated the front of the vest! http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/TreePenetration3.jpg http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/TreeVestPenetration.jpg
The fully expanded bullet was recovered about two thirds of the way inside if the impact bag and can be seen in Figure 2, cartridge 1.
2 - The Model 70 firing the 165 grain Nosler Partition, long considered the bullet to which all others are measured. This hunting bullet is also designed for deep penetration with controlled expansion. The bullet struck the vest in the center where two layers of Kevlar overlap. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/NoslerPartitionPenetrate2Layers.jpg
The bullet penetrated these two layers and the impact bag and stopped in the back of the vest. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/300NoslerPenetrate.jpg
Had the bullet struck the front of the vest where it did not overlap it would have certainly penetrated clean through the vest. Keep in mind that this is a standard hunting rifle and cartridge that you can purchase at Wal-Mart.
3 - The AMD-65 is a carbine type rifle firing the 7.62x39mm cartridge. The bullet, being 7.62mm, is the same diameter as the .300 Winchester Magnum, but is not as long or heavy and lacks the extra power that the .300 WinMag provides. The rifle "looks" like an AK-47, but it is in fact just a semi-auto "look alike" rifle that shares some similarities, like being called “high powered” by the media. It is about as powerful as your great-grand-pappy’s .30-.30 that hangs by a nail on the wall over the mantle.
The 7.62x39mm had to be fired twice. The first round penetrated the vest and skewed downward and into the ground after it hit the impact bag. I had a feeling that it had enough oomph to go all the way through considering this particular cartridge had a FMJ bullet that is not designed to expand, but is designed only for penetration. I was right.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/762x39mmImpact2.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/762x39ThruandThru2.jpg
4 - DPMS Panther Lite 16 firing a .223 Remington cartridge made by Federal cartridge company. The 5.56x45mm NATO is the cartridge that the US military uses in the M16/M4 and is virtually identical to the .223 Remington, with the same external dimensions. They can be fired in the same gun with the same chamber and produce the same ballistics. The main difference between the two is that the 5.56x45mm NATO has a slightly thicker case.
As can be expected, the fast moving hollowpoint bullet penetrated into the vest and was stopped inside of the impact bag. The bullet was recovered in little teeny pieces.
Impact - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223Impact.jpg
Penetration - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223
Bullet fragments - http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/223Aftermath.jpg
5 - Ruger Super Blackhawk firing the mighty .44 Magnum. This single action revolver is no longer “the most powerful handgun in the world,” but it is popular for hunting and target shooting. With the 7 1/2 inch barrel this gun is not designed for carry; it is designed to squeeze all of the power out of the cartridge. A longer barrel allows more room for the powder to burn, thus giving it more velocity. A longer sight radius is also a plus. This vest is not designed to stop this cartridge but I figured I would give it a try.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/44MagImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/44MagSlug.jpg
The vest stopped the .44 Magnum cold. Truly above and beyond what it was intended for, stopping this round puts it in the NIJ level IIIA territory.
6 - Springfield Armory 1911A1 firing the .45 ACP. The 1911 is a design that is almost a century old and is one of the most popular firearms ever made. Cutting its teeth on the battlefields of WWI, it is still in use by our military in a limited capacity, but is extremely popular in the US by citizens who carry it as a defensive pistol. It is also widely used in competition where its light trigger pull and legendary reliability give it an edge over the competition. The .45 ACP is a street and combat proven cartridge that provides plenty of power with the advantage of shoot ability. How did the vest stand up?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/45Impact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/45SlugStopped.jpg
The 230 grain bullet is almost as large as the .44 Magnum but the vest had no problem stopping it.
7 - Taurus 85 firing the .38 Special. Snubby revolvers like this have been around for centuries. They are designed to be small, light, and concealable. The .38 Special round that it fires has been around since the 1902. Frequently and erroneously referred to as a "Saturday night special," the snubby .38 Special is the gun and cartridge most used in homicides in the US, but way more often it rides comfortably in the pockets of the defensive minded citizen to prevent homicides. Did the vest stop this little beast?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/38SpecialImpact.jpg
Bullet in vest: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/38SpecialSlug.jpg
Sure did. Not all that impressive huh?
8 - Glock 17 firing the 9mm Luger cartridge. Although not the first, this gun helped bring about the era of the high capacity "plastic" pistol. Absolutely reliable, this pistol withstands very high round counts and is found in nightstands and holsters worldwide. The 9mm has been around for over a century and is the most popular handgun cartridge around. The 9mm FMJ rounds used by our military bring this cartridge much disdain, but with modern expanding bullets it is a solid performer that will continue to protect for years to come. The 9mm is known for incredible penetration with light and fast FMJ rounds, but those do not do much damage. I decided to shoot the vest with run-of-the-mill hollowpoints that are very common today. Here are the results:
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/9mmImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/9mmBulletRemoval2.jpg
The vest had no problems with this round. On to the next one.
9 - This is a post-war Walther PPK chambered for the .32 Auto which was the weapon of choice for James Bond for many years. This used to be a standard round for many European law enforcement officers but has fallen by the wayside since the 9mm became so popular. Today the .32 Auto is considered too underpowered for everyday carry. Of note is that the .32 Auto bullet is just a smidgen larger in diameter than the 7.62x39mm and .300 WinMag. Did the vest have any problems with this baby?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/32AutoImpact.jpg
Bullet stopped: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/32AutoSlug.jpg
No problem. Now to try the smallest cartridge in the test.
10 - The Marlin 925M chambered in the little .22 Magnum. This bolt action rifle is affordable and reliable. Used to shoot tin cans or kill small critters, the .22 Magnum gives better performance than the standard .22 long rifle. It was introduced in 1959 and serves as the only rimfire cartridge introduced in the 20th century. It is also the only rimfire used in this test. How did the smallest cartridge tested do against a vest that stopped a .44 Magnum?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/22MagImpact.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/22MagPenetration.jpg
The little Magnum not only penetrated the vest, it went through the impact bag and struck the back of the vest hard enough to leave a copper mark on the fabric! How do you explain that? This round is for shooting squirrels and it penetrated the vest? Do you think we should ban this round because of this? Now we're seeing the results that I suspected.
11 - Mossberg 500 pump action shotgun firing 1 oz. rifled slugs. It doesn't get any more basic then this folks. This shotgun is in the hands of untold numbers of our service men in Iraq right now. That's right; it is a weapon of war just like many shotguns before it. It is also the beloved shotgun of tens of millions of hunters nationwide and used to take game that feeds untold numbers of people year round. This gun is inexpensive and solidly built. The 1 oz. slug can be used for a variety of different tasks and is used to kill the most dangerous and deadly game animals in the world, to include enemies of this nation. Does it penetrate the vest? Let's find out.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/12GuageSlugImpact2.jpg
Aftermath: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/OMFG.jpg
It did not penetrate the Kevlar, but the slug pushed the front of the vest almost through to the back side. The Kevlar panels in the back of the vest ripped loose and tore through the phonebook! This was the last round fired at the vest for obvious reasons. I had a suspicion that this heavy hitter should wait until last.
12 - Mossberg 500 firing the Hornady SST slug. This slug is a copper jacketed sabot designed to give hunters a little more range out of their shotguns by making it perform similar to a rifle. How did it do?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/HornadyShotgunSlugImpact2.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/HornadyShotgunSlugPenetration.jpg
This slug had no problem going through the vest. Would that make it "armor piercing?" Should it be banned? Before you answer, check out the next participant of the test…
13 - The CVA Firebolt 209 Magnum firing a .45 caliber bullet. This muzzle loading rifle is as primitive as firearms get. It is pretty much just a steel tube with a hole at one end wrapped in a plastic stock. To load this rifle you first pour black powder down the barrel and then ram a bullet down until it seats against the powder. An ignition cap, in this case a 209 shotgun primer, is then placed in front of the bolt or hammer and you're loaded. Black powder is gunpowder that is made by mixing charcoal, saltpeter, and sulfur. Gunpowder originated in China sometime in the 9th century. This is the same technology used during the American Revolution and the American Civil War. It can't possibly pierce the Kevlar vest can it?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/MuzzleLoaderImpact.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/MuzzleLoaderPenetration.jpg
Think again! 300+ year old technology penetrated a vest that had no problem stopping a .44 Magnum! We should ban it right? For the children! I mean it is "armor piercing" and all. Next!
14 - The Ruger Police Six chambered in the .357 Magnum. This gun and cartridge, as its name implies, was carried by our nation’s law enforcement and armed citizens for over 50 years and is still in the holsters of millions of good citizens today. Firing at somewhat high velocity for a handgun, the .357 Magnum has serious street credentials for racking up a high number of one-shot stops against a threat. I was not sure if it would go through or not.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/357Impact.jpg
I did not get a picture of the bullet lodged in the vest but it was stopped. Going back to my post about body armor and checking the NIJ chart shows that a police vest that stops the faster .357 Magnum is rated as Level II. Pretty good for a surplus vest! Now we’re done shooting firearms and it’s time to bring out the bow and arrow.
15 - A PSE compound bow firing a Crimson Talon broadhead. I'm sure "Crimson Talon" brings spasms to some of the more hoplophobic who may read this post. I know it "sounds" deadly because we have heard that frightening "talon" word before, Eh? Courtesy of The Gun Zone:
"Perhaps a prayer can stop a Black Talon." But a pocketbook probably will not. The bullet is designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victim's body and tear it to pieces."
Super deadly and all that typical sensationalized yellow journalism, and now these are CRIMSON! Anyways, I was more than convinced that a broadhead would go clean through the vest. I've seen broadheads fired through 5 gallon buckets filled with sand that had no problems stopping a .44 Magnum. Here is the skinny.
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/BroadheadImpact.jpg
Inside the vest: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ArrowBarelyPenetrates.jpg
Stopped cold. The sound it made when it hit was sickening. As you can see it did slightly penetrate but the wound sustained by the wearer would be superficial. Next up is an expanding broadhead!
16 - The PSE bow shooting the Rocky Mountain Snyper 2-bladed expanding broadhead! That sounds like alot of deadliness! The arrow speed is around 300 fps. How did this one do?
Impact: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ExpandingBroadheadImpactClose.jpg
Penetration: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/ExpandingBroadheadPenetration.jpg
I call this one inconclusive. The arrow did penetrate about four inches but it hit almost directly in the shot-hole from the .223 Remington. The blades did have to deploy and cut a 2 ½ inch path through the Kevlar which is no easy task, but I still think it's inconclusive. I believe that a field point or a 2 – 3 bladed cutting point broadhead would have no problems. Time will tell.
So that's all of the weapons I fired at the body armor. This test confirmed much of what I already knew; "bullet proof" vests are not bullet proof, they are bullet resistant and they are only designed to stop handgun bullets, not rifle bullets. The muzzle loader verified that. To bring my point home, here is a picture of the .44 Magnum, which the vest stopped, next to the .22 Magnum, which the vest did not:
Click for larger image
A picture is worth a thousand words. Here’s a quick review:
.300 Winchester Magnum, both – Penetrated
7.62x39mm -------------------------– Penetrated
.223 Remington –-------------------- Penetrated
.44 Magnum ------------------------– Stopped
.45 ACP –------------------------------ Stopped
.38 Special –--------------------------- Stopped
9mm ---------------------------------– Stopped
.32 Auto –----------------------------- Stopped
.22 Magnum –------------------------ Penetrated
12 Gauge slug, 1 oz ----------------– Stopped
12 Gauge slug, Hornady SST -----– Penetrated
.45 Caliber muzzle Loader --------– Penetrated
.357 Magnum -----------------------– Stopped
Crimson Talon broadhead --------– Stopped
Rocky Mountain broadhead ------– Inconclusive
Out of 16 projectiles; 6 penetrated, 9 were stopped, and 1 was inconclusive. No handgun rounds pierced the vest. All rifles pierced the vest. I will have to re-visit the bow and arrow some day to get some better data.
Too bad the vest was totally destroyed by the 1 oz slug or I would fire more stuff at it. Up until that last shot the vest was still in good enough shape to provide lots of protection from incoming rounds. Maybe I will find another vest at a good price and do more testing. I hope this test is useful to someone and helps educate those who need it. For anyone else I hope it was entertaining!
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